Dimitria: Hi, Luis. So nice to see you again. I am a little bit sick. I woke up with a bit of a cold, but I am very happy to speak with you. And of course, you'll be doing the most of the talking, so I am going to proceed (laughs). I would like to initiate our discussion with pinpointing how you actually entered the space. For a lot of people, that would be a dream scenario as one of the first things that you did was actually enter the CryptoPunks Discord. How did that all unfold?
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Luis: It all started with my brother, who was trading CryptoPunks and he told me about it. At that time, it was early 2021, late 2020. I entered the CryptoPunks Discord and asked if they would like to have a physical painting of their CryptoPunk (as a commission).

Everything started there, making paintings for many people, many CryptoPunk owners. That was the beginning. Looking back, it's pretty amazing.

Left: Luis Simo, painting of “Punk 2484” | Right: Luis Simo, “Burnt Punk 4156”

D: I feel like somehow you're like a unicorn, because you're traditionally trained. You have a BA degree in Fine Art and that's not the usual in the digital art space. There's a lot of people that work a lot through intuition, whether they have a feeling about color, composition, or ideas. But I believe as a unicorn, you come in with a bag filled with skills on composition, on different terms, like chiaroscuro, how to create different effects. But also, you create art historical references (in your work). So how do you think having that big history on your shoulders and all of that information has actually impacted the artworks you are creating in the meme, pepe, crypto space and culture?

L: Well, I think it's not necessarily. You do not need a BA or something like that to be a great artist. Of course, there are many digital artists that are super good, trained. Mostly because they learn through YouTube or somewhere else. So, when I entered the space and I showed my art, it really worked. I think collectors loved it. Being traditionally trained in art really helped me. But it's not a necessity. You do not really need to go to university and follow the traditional path, let's say. For me, it worked well.

Luis Simó, “MODERN POPE”, 2022. Referencing “Portrait of Innocent X” by Diego Velázquez

D: You also made a conscious decision when you started uploading your art online and creating it into tokens in a way to deviate from the aesthetics of digital art and the PFPs.

L: At first it was kind of complicated because I wanted to sell the physical painting, actually. I was selling tokens that were linked to a physical painting. Most of my collectors were anon (anonymous). So, it felt crazy because I had to ask for a physical address. I didn't know if I wanted to burn the token. So everytime I made a piece, the description I wrote was “redeemable for the first owner of the NFT”. Nobody knows what happens when the first owner sells the NFT. It is still kind of tricky.

D: I am pretty sure you had quite a few challenges because you are eponymous. We know what you look like, we know your name and in a previous discussion we had you said something like, if somebody would Google you, they would know your address and access your mobile number.
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L: Yeah, they would know everything. I think that is one of the reasons why it really worked. I was saying “this is my address, this is my phone number, this is not my ID,” but it's the only thing you don't know about me.
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D: As you mentioned before, it's very challenging. You are selling a token and also with a physical painting. In order to ship it, some collectors want to remain private. How did you navigate that?

‍‍L: Well, I asked for a P.O. Box if you don't want me to send the address of your home. Maybe you don't actually want the physical painting. I actually kept some (paintings), because they (the buyers) said to me, it was in the beginning of 2021 that is not very common now, everyone is selling physicals. Everyone is doing Ordinal inscriptions and selling through platforms. Now it is easy to sell physicals with cryptocurrency. But at that time, nobody, almost nobody was doing physicals. So it was interesting.

Luis Simó,“PEPROMETHEUS”, 2024. Referencing Prometheus Bound by Rubens

D: You mentioned inscriptions and obviously you're one of the artists that has tried different blockchains and different marketplaces as well. What drove you to do all those tests and experiments and what are your results?

L: In the end for me, since the beginning, I was looking to sell my art with cryptocurrency. I started on Ethereum and then went to XCP on Bitcoin, selling through Bitcoin. Then Tezos and then back to Ethereum. I'm a cross chain artist. I think it is nice to try different chains and cryptocurrencies. I always say the best chain and the best currency is the one you feel the most comfortable with. Right now for me, it is probably Bitcoin.

D: You have also mentioned before that there have been occasions where you assisted the client who's interested in purchasing an artwork through a blockchain that they don't feel comfortable with (transacting).

L: It happens a lot. Back in the days with inscriptions and Bitcoin NFTs. They would say “I'm an ETH collector, I am not really into Ordinals”. Now, everyone is into Ordinals but at that time it was not very common, not very popular.

Luis Simó,”PEPERNICA”, 2022. Referencing Guernica by Picasso

D: What I also like about you is that you're not only active every single day on Twitter, but you are also active in the real world, showing physical paintings at conferences. I want to touch upon “Pepernica” that you created, such a monumental painting. There is quite a special story about it. Would you mind sharing it to everyone again?

L: The first time I went to a Bitcoin conference in Miami, we had an exhibition with many favorite artists, let's say the next Pepe project on XCP and I made two paintings that were quite big, but not as “Pepernica”. When I came back home, I thought I should do something spectacular, something really big. I chose a Guernica first of all because I am Spanish and I really like the painting, Picasso, and all his work. So, I drew a composition, I rented a warehouse, asked for some help and brought in two friends of mine. We made it possible. After finishing the painting, it was really big, the real Guernica size. I had it one year in my studio (shows the studio with the camera), which is not really big. It was packed in 21 models, it was very easy to pack/unpack. Finally, I had the opportunity to exhibit it in the next Bitcoin Conference in Miami and I did it. I auctioned it and it sold very well.

D:You have also mentioned before that the collector was a very important element for you.

L: I didn't want someone who just buys it, has it packed and never shows it to anyone. It was acquired by Bitcoin Magazine. It is nice because I think they are going to show it to many people every year.

D: I saw one of your artworks, one of your paintings in the “DYOR” (Do Your Own Research) exhibition at the Kunsthalle in Zurich (October 8th, 2022 until January 15th, 2023). The show was a great initiating point to meet you as an artist, the first encounter.

L: That is really cool because that was the start of showcasing physically crypto art for me. I have been in Pepe's exhibition, but only Pepes. But this show was really cool, you could see many other artworks, it was a big deal.

D: It was an institutional exhibition and the audience were not crypto natives.

L: Actually, I think most of them were not, so it was really nice.

D: When we spoke before, you said that you appreciate more for the artwork to be displayed in a physical environment rather than just online.

L: I think it is because I do paintings, I'm not a digital painter and you cannot see the colors in an artwork like they are in real life. The oil painting smells and you can feel the texture and that is not really possible to do (online). I will continue doing physical art because I'm not really good at doing digital art (laughs). I think it is cool to have artwork. I collect also, and it is good to have the piece at home. To see it and touch it and everything.

D: How do you approach a new idea? Do you incorporate drawings and sketches or do you test it on digital tools like an iPad?

L: Most of the time I draw first the idea physically with a pencil. But if I want to add something from the internet, that is mostly what I do, I use the iPad and I can collage it.

Left: Detail by Luis Simó,”PEPERNICA”, 2022 with DarkFarms’ SMOWL PFP | Right: DarkFarms SMOWLS

D: I have also seen on your Twitter account that you are a supporter of DarkFarms (the $BOME token) and the Pepe community.

L: I spoke with DarkFarms to add a “SMOWL” (DarkFarm’s art character) like his PFP pepe collection to Pepernica, which I added on the right corner (of the painting). I love his art. I think he's a really nice artist. I do not know if it is a he or she, but DarkFarms is a really nice artist and I have been collecting his artwork since Tezos and then XP. He is also a multi-chain artist.

D: Looking at your art, of course, there are the digital culture elements, but you are also quite connected to nature. One could say that there are parallels with David Hockney, whom I know is one of your favorite artists. He is also doing a digital painting a day on his iPad, referencing nature and that's something also that you have been experiencing and practicing. Is there a direct influence and/or inspiration that you can trace back to your art pieces?

L: Of course. Actually, I think he is painting a flower a day or something like that and gifting to friends, which is an idea I love. I love the way he uses color in his paintings. I really take those ideas into my work.

Luis Simó with FingerPrintsDao’s autoglyph #181

D: Also you have been creating “Autoglyphs”.

L: That was back in the days, when I painted CryptoPunks, I made two because it was really, really hard. There are many symbols that have to be symmetric, sharp and made by hand. It was crazy, when I had them here in the studio, I would have loved to keep these paintings.

D: Do you have a favorite painting or series of work of yours?

L: I don't know. I like what I am doing right now, that is mixing AI images with images I take from the internet and I am painting on canvas.

If I have to choose a painting I probably choose “Pepernica” for everything that it means. But, if I have to choose a series, it is what I am working on right now.

Luis Simó,”WAGMI”, 2023

D: I like your “WAGMI” painting, particularly that it was done in a bear market. You have Elon Musk and everything is sinking. 

L: That was really nice because I felt like all the floors were going down. Everything was going down. Ethereum was crashing, Bitcoin was crashing. I was in New York with a friend at the NFT NYC and everything was going down - and I thought “man, I should do a painting about this”. This is how I started doing it. It ended up with the people from Transient Labs, they are working with SuperRare.

D: It completely captures the moment.

L: Exactly the same moment we are living right now. I also love the title “WAGMI” (We're all gonna make it) - no one is making it.

D: You are established on Twitter, but you're also participating in the traditional art market, working with galleries and representations. How do you feel about those two worlds; the crypto space online on twitter and the traditional world, are there any opportunities between the two mediums? Or, how do you navigate between those two fields?

L: I was actually signed last week with a gallery. I'm going to work with them for about five years and I am really happy about that. Nobody knows how to operate I think, because when you are with a gallery you should sell everything with that gallery, if you have signed a contract. At least for a region, everything that goes to China I'm going to sell with this gallery for example. But if I sell an NFT to someone who's based in China, nobody really knows how to operate.

They (the art gallery) help you find good art collectors. They make exhibitions, it is really nice because you want to see your work exhibited. If it is abroad and if it is an international exhibition it is even better. I have loved both worlds. The traditional art world is more liquid, let's say right now for me, it's easier to find a collector and sell a painting, but back in the day, when NFTs were booming, I wasn't selling anything with my colleagues. Maybe two or three paintings a year. But I was selling really well through NFTs. For me it is really important to be with a gallery right now.

D: It is a whole different ecosystem.

L: You have to be a top selling artist to be featured in a main gallery.

D: Do you think there is a sense of elitism? Or the fact that the crypto space needs to catch up on the professionalism of the traditional art market? Where do we stand?

L: I don't really know. Some artists are hot right now, top tier and 99% of the others are not. So, they are struggling to sell a piece. I don't know if that's elitism or what is it? I don't really know if it happens the same with galleries. It is really difficult to find a gallery where both parties are happy. You are making art and they are selling it. They are happy with what they are selling and you are happy the way they are doing it.

D: What do your family and close friends think of the advantageous steps you are making in the space? You started as a traditional artist who painted portraits and commissions, and now you're painting pepes.

L: That's difficult to explain to people like my parents (laughs). It's easier to explain to younger people. I started doing portraits and commission works, selling really, really low. I was not actually happy. I had another job. I could not make a life with painting. It was really hard, then everything changed. Not only because I was selling NFTs and I was selling my art through crypto, but also because I was trading. I was minting everything on ArtBlocks, minting Bored Apes. I was in the beginning - the birth of the PFPs and the boom. Everything helped me. Trading PFPs and NFTs, also selling my art through NFTs.

I used the meme before but not on Crypto Twitter. So, when I started painting pepes I started selling very well. Someone like my parents, they do not understand, but they are happy that I make a living painting stuff from the internet and what I like.

Luis Simó, “I AM COZOMO DE’ MEDICI”, 2021

D: It's a generational thing in a way. We grew up with the internet, but also without it in the same way. The fact is that you're really capturing a moment in the culture and the space evolves so fast. Doing the portrait of Cozomo de’ Medici, with the profile of Snoop Dog.

L: Actually Snoop quote Tweeted me or something.

D: You were definitely at the right place and time in a way. A few weeks later and the news is no longer relevant.

L: It was really that moment. I know many artists that are really good and right now are struggling to sell a piece. Just because they were not in the right moment.

D: Some people like to argue and say good art is a commentary of its time. I think you match this very well, because you make a great commentary of our time. There's great skill and the fact that you're also using technology, and not just the subject matter. You, yourself are an NFT collector - you understand the different blockchains, you understand how to navigate the space. It is a unicorn combination.

L: Some people say that everything is marketing. I do not think so. It's really important to know where to showcase your art, where to sell it, how to sell it, how to approach a collector. If someone comes to me and says “this is my art, buy it” I am probably not going to buy it - why? I think it is really important to learn and study how to do it.

D: A lot of people say that you cannot do anything without a community. What are your thoughts?

L: It depends on the community (laughs). If you have bad intentions, you just want to sell and make a profit (“rugging people”) and you don't care - people are probably going to see it. If you are in the Pepe community and you are just trying to make as much BTC or ETH as possible and then dumb your art, nobody is going to eat that.

D: That is also the bad wrap about the space. Although there is money laundering in the traditional art market and there's a lot of insider trading through collectors accessing works that are very hot in our space, the web3 space gets a lot of that negativity.

L: Some of the attention comes because of the value of some of the artworks. People think it is money laundering. Others think that something physical should be worth more. I think that mentality is changing. We are living here, online (shows his mobile phone). We are used to seeing everything digitally. The problems with the scams and money laundering happen in the traditional art world and will continue to happen in the web space. Of course most of the actors are unknown and it is much easier to do. If you have a Picasso, they know you  and you need an ID to sell it - not if it's in the black market, I guess. But, it is easier to find the person who is behind that painting. Digitally it is not that easy to put a face on it. Therefore, that will continue happening. Although blockchain traces back to the initial transaction, it traces back to the address but not the person.

I think the traditional art world is more corrupt than digital art. We have been here for a few years, let's see what happens maybe in 10 or 20 years with NFTs and digital art. Right now every year we have a scandal in the traditional art world, from dealers to fraudulent activities.

D: Touching on IRL (in real life) - what are your upcoming plans? You mentioned the gallery representation, but you did not mention the gallery name.

L: It is Winners Gallery.

D: What is coming in the future?

L: I will keep making NFTs and minting my art. Probably I am going to be more active on the Bitcoin blockchain. I am much more bullish there. Being on Twitter is sometimes something that makes me a bit tired, but I think this space is where you need to be. Maybe with the traditional art Instagram is where you need to be but with NFTs - everything is on Twitter. I will keep doing my stuff, focus on physical art and the galleries if I have a show or something.

D: You made a really good point, as Twitter is where you are supposed to be within the space. Although Instagram is an App that works very well for the traditional art market.

L: If you try to sign with a gallery, they are going to ask you “what's your instagram?”. Nobody is going to tell you what your Twitter handle is.

D: Are you doing something in the next few months - like an exhibition or partaking in any of the upcoming conferences?

L: No, I am not. I am working.

D: You cannot share - I get it (laughs).

L: I cannot share (laughs). I'm actually working a lot because I have an exhibition in December. I need to make about 15 paintings. Some of them are big. So, I will be painting a lot. I am talking with collectors, I cannot say what I will be doing in the NFT space, but I am working full-time.

‍D:  Well, I guess we just have to follow you on Twitter to find out.

‍L: I think Twitter is the most updated social media I have right now.