Dimitria: Picasso said: “Good artists copy, great artists steal.” How does this quote resonate with you?
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‍Wolfgang Beltracchi: When Picasso, like many artists of his time, had his studio in Montparnasse, a reputation preceded him as he walked through the neighbourhood: "Picasso is on his way, close the studios." He was known for appropriating ideas from his colleagues. However, he had the gift of realizing these "appropriated ideas" better.

WOLFGANG BELTRACCHI by Shkelzen Konxheli

D: Mr Beltracchi, you look the same as I would have imagined a rockstar forger would look like. Does image persona play an important role for you? Is this something that you take care of?

W.B.: My appearance is an expression of my personality. I have always preferred clothing that reflects my way of thinking and my zest for life. In my youth, I was the first with long hair, my clothing was expressive, and I have always loved hats. I would never think of dressing like a 19th-century banker; I love colours and shapes too much for that.

D: I heard that art was daily practice in your house, as your father was an art restorer - can you tell us a bit about the early days of painting and connection with art?

W.B.: Since I can remember, painting has been a part of my family. Everyone did it, not just my father. My uncles painted, my siblings painted, some professionally, others for personal enjoyment. Being the youngest of five siblings, I was the best at painting and drawing, which made me uncomfortable. I didn't feel good when my father told my older brother to let me handle the more complicated paintings; it was already difficult enough for me to earn the recognition of my older siblings. When I was 12 years old, I was allowed to paint with my father's oil paints for the first time. Before that, it was only pencil, charcoal, or watercolours.

“After school, I had to work with my father in churches and help with restoration; there was no time for soccer.”

WOLFGANG BELTRACCHI by Shkelzen Konxheli

W.B.: I was very interested in film at that time and owned a double-8 film camera.After being expelled from high school, I wanted to make films. I was 17 years old and too young to be admitted to film school, so I applied for art studies in Aachen and Krefeld, Germany. The art schools were the predecessors of academies back then; you learned all areas of art and craftsmanship there.

After 6 semesters, I quit my studies because I couldn't learn anything that would have furthered me artistically. Occasionally, I worked at the Ludwig Collection and helped with the restoration of newly acquired pieces. My own works at that time were a mixture of hyperrealism and surrealism.

D: How was your relationship knowing that you have created a masterpiece but you are not in the forefront? Do you enjoy it now that you are known?

W.B.: My goal was never fame. I wanted to paint good pictures, express myself in all styles, bring in all my knowledge and skills, and live my life in absolute freedom and independence. In the 1970s, I received serious offers from renowned gallery owners. I had no interest in creating a "style" and spending the rest of my life conforming to the sales expectations of gallery owners. Surely, I would have become famous that way, but now I am infamous, and I prefer that. Daniel Kehlmann once called it the ultimate form of fame.

After the trial, the notoriety naturally helped me. However, fame is not a guarantee of an artist's success. I consider myself successful because I can express myself in my art however I please. I can say what I have to say in any way I want; there are no limits in painting for me.

“Now I am infamous, and I prefer that.
Daniel Kehlmann once called it the ultimate form of fame.”

WOLFGANG BELTRACCHI by Shkelzen Konxheli

D: You have been featured on CBS 60 mins as well as in an episode of The Simpsons. One can say you have set a footmark worldwide and are part of the culture landscape - what are your thoughts on being part of the established media and commentary?

W.B.: The presence that the media grants me is a reflection of our time. On one hand, there are the "holders of authoritative knowledge" in the art scene, and on the other hand, there are people who discover art for themselves because it doesn't come from an elitist perspective. Of course, at the beginning, the media interest was focused on the criminal case, but that's long ago. Now, the coverage has evolved into an engagement with the art itself and a belief in it.

“The discourse on art is becoming increasingly pluralistic, and the era of art dictators will come to an end. Just as ‘classic' painting will disappear, the art elite will lose its justification for existence. I am part of this process and, therefore, part of art history.”

D: “The price of everything, and the value of nothing” - a famous quote by Oscar Wild which I think explains the art market very well. What is your take on that?

W.B.: I see it exactly the same way. The price is the exchange value for the commodity of art, while the value, ideally, could stand for the emotions that true art evokes. Since feelings are highly individual, the value attributed to a work is also highly individual, and the truth of art is definitely a matter of belief. For this reason, the market needs the price, which serves as an upward, open-ended barometer of desirability.

D: How does it feel when you hear collectors keep their fakes and say this is the best Max Ernst they ever saw?

W.B.: If a collector, knowing that instead of the artwork they acquired from an artist, they possess one of my works and accept it as an equally valuable artwork, and keep it in their collection, I am naturally pleased. Since the trial, collectors' perception of my art has developed positively. The question of whether I am "just a talented brushstroke artist," as expressed by one of the prominent Swiss art marketers, or an artist, is no longer relevant for many art enthusiasts. My collectors accept that I do not subordinate myself to the laws of branding and that my works do not possess the recognizable value necessary for strategic marketing.

“Art is once again evolving in a completely new direction, and what lies ahead is not set in stone - it remains exciting. (...) There is still hope that art will do as it pleases.”

WOLFGANG BELTRACCHI by Shkelzen Konxheli

D: In your opinion, what impact does the market's obsession with authenticity and the monetary value of art have on the overall artistic experience? Does it take something away from the art?

W.B.: The obsession of the market has nothing to do with art in my opinion. One could rather describe the workings of this environment as the art of marketing. Art is an abstract concept, so this machinery of commercialization cannot take it away. However, for many artists who are not admitted into the inner circle of this machinery, it strips away their freedom to create their art. It forces artists to conform to the laws of marketing, which is not always beneficial for art itself.

It is difficult for artists to resist the system. It didn't surprise me when my daughter told me that at the art academies where she studied, they kept trying to instil in her the need to develop a style that is new and different from the millions of other artists trying to make a living. Overburdening a young person with such a demand instead of actually teaching them how to "make" art and then deciding how to make it is ridiculous.

As we are witnessing, art is once again evolving in a completely new direction, and what lies ahead is not set in stone - it remains exciting. Artists are finding new, individual platforms. There is still hope that art will do as it pleases.

D: What do you think about the art market’s fast and shock culture - is skill still an important element for an artist?

W.B.: Today, craftsmanship is no longer a dominant factor in art. There are many art forms that do not require manual or technical skills. What I do, applying paint to a canvas with a brush to create a painting, is an anachronism. This form of classical painting may be lost, but it is also possible that it will experience a renaissance, just as it did in Europe after a long period of artistic incapacity in the 14th century. Art is free to create its own means of expression.

WOLFGANG BELTRACCHI by Shkelzen Konxheli

D: How did “The Greats” come into play? How long did it take you to prepare?

W.B.: Since the painting Salvator Mundi was presented for sale by Christie's, I have been engaged with this artwork. The unbelievable auction result at that time astonished many connoisseurs. I am preoccupied with the question of why some experts attribute the painting to the artist Leonardo da Vinci, even though there are far more arguments against the authenticity of the artist's own hand than for it.

In 2021, I met Hansen Wang, known in the NFT scene for his co-authorship of Hashmasks. Hansen was interested in an NFT project featuring my artworks. The exploration of the Salvator Mundi painting lent itself to such a project. At that time, I had no experience with NFTs and only had fragmented knowledge about what NFTs were. With Hansen, I agreed to create the concept and the artworks needed to generate tokens, while Hansen Wang was responsible for the technical aspects and market strategy. I enjoyed working on the artworks as much as the dynamics of collaborating with technologically savvy young individuals who effortlessly navigate a world completely foreign to me, which I find fascinating. I have no talent for computer technology and everything related to it; in this field, I am a complete failure.

Our goal was to develop sufficient visual material from a number of physical artworks and partial artworks, with the help of Alberto Venzago, my photographer friend, suitable for tokenization. The final step was to use an AI program to create new, independent artworks from the NFTs. At the time, the program we used failed, but today I see the possibility of achieving a similar artistic outcome.

In my opinion, the start of the art project was successful. The presentation was truly well-prepared. Unfortunately, shortly after the release, the crypto market and, at the same time, the NFT market collapsed. It's a shame that the project was neglected due to this situation. I would have liked to have a better presence on social media and better community support. With my current experience, this fantastic project would have achieved and maintained a completely different level of attention.

WOLFGANG BELTRACCHI by Shkelzen Konxheli

D: What are your thoughts on blockchain, taking in consideration that you blurred the boundaries of provenance before?

W.B.: I believe that the possibilities for securing NFTs have not been fully exploited yet. Just recently, the book "Beltracchi-Die Wiederkehr des Salvator Mundi" (EN: The Return of Salvator Mundi) was released. This photo book, featuring texts by renowned philosophers, NFT enthusiasts, business experts, etc., showcases the creation of the artworks for the project. We created the book to provide art enthusiasts who are unfamiliar with NFTs with an insight into this art form. One can also perceive it as a form of provenance.

D: Do you listen to music when you paint a specific work? How is your practice in the studio?

W.B.: As a child of a middle-class family, with my mother being a teacher and my father a church painter, I grew up in the 1960s immersed in American literature of the time, the emerging rock and pop music, and pop art. I attended all the major concerts and witnessed legendary performances. This music and the associated spirit have shaped me - I cannot work without music.

My studio is a mixture of an Art Nouveau dance hall, an art library, an abundance of painting materials, my works, a good music system that can even play tapes, and a comfortable couch.

WOLFGANG BELTRACCHI by Shkelzen Konxheli

D: How is it working together not only as business partners but also as an artist couple?

W.B.: For over thirty years, I have been spending my life with my wife. We are always together, except for the time we spent apart in prison. Our life and work are symbiotic. We develop all projects together, make decisions together, and share the risks. This is likely because we both have a great love for art. We live in and with art. It brings us joy to visit exhibitions of both unknown and renowned artists, to read about the creation of artworks, and to hear others' opinions. Our life is the life of two individuals who are fortunate to share an abundance of common interests and have the freedom to pursue them.

D: Do you collect art? If you can make it?  

W.B.: Of course, we collect art; once a collector, always a collector. Before the trial, we had an extensive collection of paintings and sculptures by contemporary artists, both well-known and unknown. The collection was auctioned off to benefit our creditors. It was auctioned off even at an auction house that had previously auctioned off works that were criminally relevant. Now we are collecting again, collecting is like an addiction, it's hard to stop.

WOLFGANG BELTRACCHI by Shkelzen Konxheli